LANCASTER, Pa. — Josh Shapiro sits atop what may be one of the most important states this election, and he said he’s doing everything he can to make sure Kamala Harris wins in Pennsylvania.
“Every election I’ve ever personally been involved in, the feeling I want to have that night, that Monday night when I go to bed, is that I left it all on the field,” Shapiro told NBC News when asked if he will feel on the night before Election Day that he’s done everything he can to get Harris elected.
“And at the pace I’m keeping right now,” he added, “I’m pretty sure I’ll feel that way.”
Two years into the job, Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor enjoys high approval ratings and was one of the finalists to become Harris’ running mate, in no small part because of his 15-point landslide victory in the key swing state in 2022. Should the vice president lose the election next month, picking Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz over Shapiro will be one of the first choices that is second-guessed.
Even though he wasn’t selected, Shapiro has been a sought-after surrogate, stumping for Harris in nearly 60 events since President Joe Biden left the race. He’s also worked to boost Democratic candidates up and down the ballot, in state-level races and key House and Senate seats around the country.
On the policy front, a Shapiro adviser said the governor spoke with Harris and her campaign about dropping college degree requirements for some federal jobs, similar to a policy Shapiro enacted at the state level in Pennsylvania. Harris announced that policy platform during a rally in Wilkes-Barre last month.
Shapiro spoke with NBC News on Thursday for an interview about his fears and preparations for the election, his recent call during a Steelers game with billionaire Elon Musk — arguably former President Donald Trump’s biggest supporter — and reported tensions between him and one of the state’s U.S. senators, Democrat John Fetterman.
Shapiro had just finished a campaign event at a farm outside Lancaster, geared toward bringing Republicans tired of Trump into the Democratic coalition.
What follows is a partial transcript that has been edited for clarity:
NBC NEWS: When Pennsylvania starts posting results on election night, where is the kind of place you’re going to look to get a sense of how the state’s going to turn out?
SHAPIRO: It’s a hard question to answer, because, as you know, this is a state that has come down to 1% or less the last two elections. So you know, a few hundred votes in a rural county literally could make a big difference when you start to put all of that together. I don’t duck your question, I’m not trying to duck what you’re asking me. But I don’t look at one particular county. I’m kind of looking at the broader range of things.
NBC NEWS: There haven’t been that many visits in the collar counties around Philadelphia. Some concerns about the Pennsylvania campaign were recently reported in Politico. Democrats are worried about Philadelphia. What do you make of the Harris campaign efforts in those places?
SHAPIRO: I’m not sure I would agree with the characterization. She was just there literally yesterday. And I believe they’ve got, I’m not sure how much this is public yet, but a really robust schedule in the [Philly] burbs over these last 10 days or so. So I think they’re putting time in.
I do think the Philadelphia suburbs are critically important. If you take them together, they’re far larger than the city of Philadelphia. No disrespect to Philly at all. It’s a lot of people, and historically, those have been communities that have swung around. Democrat, Republican, back to Democrat. And so I think it’s important to be there and compete hard there.
NBC NEWS: What kind of preparations are you making for Trump to potentially challenge the vote here, and do you expect him to do that?
SHAPIRO: Well, we’re already seeing lawsuits. So of course, I expect that to continue. And as I said before, we’re used to this. Back in 2020, Donald Trump took me to court, and his allies took me to court 43 different times. They went 0 for 43. We went 43 and 0, and we had a free and fair, safe and secure election.
We’re going to have another free and fair, safe and secure election, because this election is being run by Republican and Democratic clerks of elections across Pennsylvania who are part of my Election Protection Task Force made up of those clerks, lawyers, law enforcement. It’s chaired by Secretary Al Schmidt, the great secretary of our commonwealth who oversees elections — a Republican, by the way, because we think administering elections should be a nonpartisan activity. And so I expect that the lawsuits will come. … But I also expect, once again, the will of the people to be respected.
NBC NEWS: Would you accept a role in a potential Kamala Harris administration?
SHAPIRO: I love my job as governor. I think I’ve made it very clear I don’t want to go anywhere, and I’m not going to. I’m going to stay here and serve as governor.
NBC NEWS: Have you spoken with Elon Musk any further after that initial phone call?
SHAPIRO: No.
NBC NEWS: Do you believe he’s serious about making investments in Pennsylvania?
SHAPIRO: I do.
NBC NEWS: Obviously, he’s playing a huge role in trying to get people to vote for the former president here. What do you make of those efforts? He’s giving people a million dollars, right? I’m sure you saw the Department of Justice letter yesterday. What do you make of all of this?
SHAPIRO: Let me just make clear in my conversation with him now a week or two or whatever that was at the Steelers game, it was 100% on economic development. And I’m always fighting hard to make sure that folks invest in Pennsylvania.
We did not discuss politics. We obviously have completely different views on politics, different choices and candidates. And that’s OK, folks can express their opinions, and I’m sure he’ll continue to do that. And so will I.
NBC NEWS: Sen. John Fetterman, D-Pa., said the other day that Democrats taking aim at Elon Musk for his efforts to boost Trump are taking [their] eyes off the ball. He’s also said Musk is pretty popular with younger voters … particularly in Pennsylvania. What do you think of his argument?
SHAPIRO: I didn’t see his remarks, so I’m not sure I can comment on that.
NBC NEWS: Have you and Sen. Fetterman had any conversation recently as the campaign progresses, as we get toward Election Day?
SHAPIRO: We’re all working together for Kamala Harris and, like, we’re all rowing in the same direction.
NBC NEWS: Has there been anything about the electorate this cycle that has surprised you, whether it be preferences or some dynamic going on with voters in Pennsylvania or nationally?
SHAPIRO: This is the first presidential election where A.I. mis- and disinformation has been able to take root and really affect some of the feedback that I hear from people.
Let me explain what I mean by that. Folks will see something that is clearly false but gets spread around on Twitter or on the internet some other social media site, and then it’ll get repeated back to me, and I’ll say to someone, “You know that is false. You’re entitled to your opinion on which candidate you like or just like you vote for, but understand you’re not entitled to make up facts that’s false, and here’s why.” And interestingly enough, what most folks will say to me was, “Geez, I didn’t realize that. Thanks for clarifying.”
Now they might not agree with my advocacy for Kamala Harris, which is fine, I understand that, but I think it’s really important to set that record straight and make sure that we’re dealing in fact, and so we’re just seeing more mis- and disinformation out there in the discourse that has lept away from just being on Twitter and sort of entered into the broader dialog. I think that’s really dangerous.
NBC NEWS: Do you think that stuff is specifically A.I.-generated? Or are we talking sort of the standard mis- and disinformation that I think we were used to over the last few years, but it’s just being amplified further?
SHAPIRO: I think it’s all of the above. Look, some of the imagery is A.I. generated, some of this stuff, there’s just people with far larger platforms today than they had four years ago who are willing to just lie and make up complete, utter bullS— and then try to pass it off as truth.
NBC NEWS: You saw some of Trump’s remarks about Arnold Palmer and saw him say the vice president was a “s—” vice president. You saw him at the event. This is all in Pennsylvania. You saw him at the event in the Philly suburbs where he just listened to music for 40 minutes on stage. Is he fundamentally a different person than the guy who was running in 2016 or 2020, or is this still the same guy?
SHAPIRO: I think he is far more unstable and erratic than he was eight years ago. I think he lacks coherence today. And while I disagreed with him eight years ago on the things he was advocating for, by and large, he was far more coherent. He’s clearly slipping, and I think that’s a question the American people need to ask themselves.
I mean, this isn’t just about winning an election, this is about governing for the next four years. And does this guy really have the capabilities and the capacity to be able to govern for four more years? I think in this campaign, he’s showing that he really does not.
